Curse

Numa Pompilius · Feb 11, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loralai

I can see the OP's point, however, I lean more toward the idea of, "play the game your way, let others play theirs." We ALL paid for the game. If a 55 monk is farming Augry Rock, it's not affecting my game in the slightest, so why should I care?

I agree. There's nothing wrong with either farming or soloing; in fact, if I couldn't solo I'd never have got the game. The problem is when you impose your own jadedness on new gamers. You find the "red cloaked deserter" boring beyond words because you've done it four times before, and spoil it for the guy doing it the first time. THAT is bad.

Factions will help a bit, but from experience I already know that half the beta testers only joined beta testing to be able to dominate & impress on release, and all the highly competitive will have completed it within a week anyway - and all of them will be aching to impress the newbies with their godly knowledge of every exploit and optimal way to beat/run the content.

As for me, I'll play factions solo or with guildmates, just like I have the first chapter, and it'll hopefully take me many months to reach the level of boredom and jadedness the beta players and the uberly competitive will achieve the first week.

Lasher Dragon · Feb 11, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

I wish people would stop complaining about farming. You don't like it? Fine, don't f*cking farm. I farm all the time. I've done every mission, been everywhere. To me, farming is like playing the lottery - I may get some incredible prize, even though the chances suck like hell.

Without farming, how much do you think runes at the rune trader would cost? How much would dye be up to? Not to mention ecto & shards.

The only legit complaint I can see is the overabundance of 55 monks, but really, if you are teaming up with a 55 monk (knowingly or unknowingly), chances are you are going to the UW/FoW. Hoping to get an ecto/shard, or perhaps some eternal stuff, or a storm bow? Guess what, if that's why you went down there - you are farming.

If you want something in this game, something specific, I don't see any way to get it besides farm for it. Your options are a) farm the area the item is rumored to drop in, hoping for the best; or b) farm enough platinum up to be able to buy the item; or of course c) tough titty, I didn't get one, just do without.

Every day I play, I get all kinds of loot that isn't max, but otherwise is very nice. Maybe a gold rod, 11-21 damage, with some mods, or any other item just a bit below everyone's "gotta be p3rf3ct" expectations. You know what I do? I go find some guildless newb in Ascalon City or any of those low-level areas, and I give it to them. Every day. It always cracks me up when the newb acts suspicious, asking me "Why is it free?". I tell them the truth: I farm a lot, and if I didn't give this to you, I would have either sold it to the merchant or salvaged it. I figured you may actually get some use out of it.

Excer · Feb 11, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

*sigh* another rant thread...

If you have done everything the game offers, and you know every area/mission/quest like the back of your hand, what else is there to do? PvP? Sure, thats all nice and stuff but what happens when that gets boring? Its not like a new build is developed every week. Farming is the only thing left to do other than helping friends/guildies.

Just restating what other people have said, why do you care about farming when it doesnt really affect you? You all think that the people who grind 24/7 has super powerful equipment that'll pwn you. But think back to that review you read b4 buying the game. Wasnt there something about "skill is more important than equipment?" I'm gonna tell you right now that the few extra dmg points from a 15>50 weapon will not make missions, quests, or pvp easier by a noticeable amount. People farm because they strive to have the best stuff possible. You cant blame them for that.

Celeborn · Feb 11, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Same with me and the game Gunz. Even though I didn't used to be that good at it, I used to enjoy everygame, not because I was getting kill after kill, but because I just loved playing the game. Now its if I get enough kills or if I mess up when I shouldn't, etc.

Kinda reminds me of the matrix movie: Ignorance is Bliss. ^_^

Avarre · Feb 11, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

So basically, what you're saying is groups that use proper aggro, and good builds and tactics to kill places such as fissure with <5 people should be disallowed, and you consider this 'human nature' of exploiting? What the hell are you on?

The OP is complaining that people find ways to optimize their skill set, and labels it exploiting? I got news for you, some people enjoy it just for the fun of playing a smaller group (like playing Intentionally-Underpowered-Builds in diabloII), and others enjoy the 'exploit' of 55 hp farming or whatnot.

So basically you want everyone better than you in PvE to be nerfed? Blech, this thread is traumatizing.

In closing, I play 3man FoW runs, 2 man smite runs, pug 8 man runs of either, and I enjoy all forms of this. Why is what I consider fun less important than you wanting to be a reactionary?

trankle · Feb 11, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

I found a way to get some of the innocence back. I recently got a friend to purchase the game, and I created a new character to adventure with him. The trick is, I answer all his questions and give him good advice, but he leads everywhere. Even if I know he's going the 'wrong' way. Playing the old quests through someone else's eyes has been really fun.

Just an idea.

Studio Ghibli · Feb 11, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

What saddens me is when jaded & experienced players ruin the experience of new players by running them from A to B, by doing missions for them, by twinking them, by teaching them every trick and shortcut so they can get through the game as quickly as possible and get started with the real game: FARMING!""

Likewise.

If you've ever gone back and played through the missions on a new character, the mentality of the older players is frustrating. It's a WTF WTF HURRY SKIP mentality. There's no sense of exploration or anything.

Whenever I do Glint's Lair for the first time, I try (in vain) to keep it a newb-only party, if only because EVERY TIME I've asked vets to NOT SPOIL IT, they always SPOIL IT.

The fix?

New content. ;D

Studio Ghibli · Feb 11, 2006, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

I found a way to get some of the innocence back. I recently got a friend to purchase the game, and I created a new character to adventure with him. The trick is, I answer all his questions and give him good advice, but he leads everywhere. Even if I know he's going the 'wrong' way. Playing the old quests through someone else's eyes has been really fun.

Just an idea.

Just noticed this post.

I did the same thing, too.

Also because, in a sense, I had to. My friend was new--and, being new, was slow, and regular parties normally booted us because she took to long to switch skills and stuff.

crazy diamond · Feb 11, 2006, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadian Bacon

Crazy Diamond, I know where your coming from.

A while back I had to explain to a lvl20 guy (somewhere in the mountians, I forget exactly where) how to use his Map function. I am not lieing.

But that isn't the worst part of it.

I explained to him that when you press "M", you can see the map. Of course, he was like "Whao! Thats sweet!" About half a minute later, he suddenl;y leaves the party without warning. I whispered him to ask where he went, and he replied with something to the eeffect of, "OMG! My map is hax! Its big glitch! I clicked Ascalon to zoom in, and suddenly I went there! WTF!!!!!" Of course, I had to onder if this guy was serious. But nevertheless, I began typing a message about how that's what is supposed to happen when you click a town. He took a moment to reply, and then said "STFU NUB!!!" and put me on ignore.

I promise this is a 100% true story, as unbelievable as it is. This is a perfect example of how runners wreck the game for new players. That guy hadn't the faintest clue about one of the most basic features.

Oh god, that is priceless. And I believe you! Because it reminded me of another gem.

One of the last times I did Ring of Fire for one of my characters. Now normally I just do all three missions in one night with a group. By the time we got to Hells Precipice one of our warriors says he wants to respec his skills, so we give him a few minutes. After a bit he asks(I shit you not!) "How does adrenaline work?".

Of course we all though he was kidding. Until we went into the mission and he starts complaining that none of his adrenaline skills will light up.

So there you have it. A warrior, in Hells Precipice, who had no idea how adrenaline worked. One of the very first thing warriors are taught in pre-sear(you can't miss it if you pick up any axe, sword, or hammer skill), and this man somehow plowed through the game without ever learning about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon

Hoping to get an ecto/shard, or perhaps some eternal stuff, or a storm bow? Guess what, if that's why you went down there - you are farming.

Uh, no, that isn't farming. Thats getting myself one item or weapon I want. It's something I intend to keep.

Farming is hoarding as many items. runes, etc. as possible so that I can sell them for a profit. Amassing large quantities of a certain product, far more than you'll ever need, so that you may distribute it to other people for a fee. You know, kind of like that thing people in the country do in real life. What's it called.. oh yeah! Farming.

Fantus · Feb 11, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy diamond

Farming is hoarding as many items. runes, etc. as possible so that I can sell them for a profit. Amassing large quantities of a certain product, far more than you'll ever need, so that you may distribute it to other people for a fee. You know, kind of like that thing people in the country do in real life. What's it called.. oh yeah! Farming.

"Farming" was invented by early people not to reap big profits but to grow food for their own needs. Your definition is wrong.

crazy diamond · Feb 11, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

"Farming" was invented by early people not to reap big profits but to grow food for their own needs. Your definition is wrong.

So, just because people now sell their produce it is no longer farming? News to me! You need to tell all them farmers that what they are doing is no longer farming. They need to come up with a new name.

I suggest they now call it Produce Pushing. Then they could call themselves Produce Pushers! I think its catchy.

SilentAssassin · Feb 11, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Produce Pushing, Produce Pushing Produce Pushing, PP

PP !! your a PP-er sounds good to me

lol

Lets don't start a topic what farming really means, lets just talk about what was first

the chicken or the egg??

Lasher Dragon · Feb 11, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy diamond

Uh, no, that isn't farming. Thats getting myself one item or weapon I want. It's something I intend to keep.

Whatever your intent with the item, you went down there not to do missions or gain XP, but to kill monsters until you found an item. That is farming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy diamond

Farming is hoarding as many items. runes, etc. as possible so that I can sell them for a profit. Amassing large quantities of a certain product, far more than you'll ever need, so that you may distribute it to other people for a fee. You know, kind of like that thing people in the country do in real life. What's it called.. oh yeah! Farming.

No, that is hoarding, and there is a difference. You can farm without hoarding, and you can hoard without farming.

crazy diamond · Feb 11, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentAssassin

the chicken or the egg??

The chicken of course!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon

Whatever your intent with the item, you went down there not to do missions or gain XP, but to kill monsters until you found an item. That is farming.

There is a huge difference between someone wanting to get a Eternal Shield or Sup Vigor Rune for their warrior, and someone re-doing the thing over and over to amass enough Eternal Shields and Sup Runes to sell to other people.

To the former, the object in question is their prize. For a farmer, the object in question is not their prize, but a means to it.

Quote:

No, that is hoarding, and there is a difference. You can farm without hoarding, and you can hoard without farming.

No, hoarding would imply that one keep all the things they get. If you're getting all that in order to sell it, then it can't possibly be hoarding, because hoarding excludes the possibility of said items leaving your grasp.

Rilder · Feb 11, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

I'm confused, i thought farming had something to do with corn and John Deer Tractors, i dont think theres any John Deer Tractors in the game

crazy diamond · Feb 11, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rilder

I'm confused, i thought farming had something to do with corn and John Deer Tractors, i dont think theres any John Deer Tractors in the game

I'm also pretty sure that the Green Giant has something to do with it.

sixdartbart · Feb 11, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

So basically, what you're saying is groups that use proper aggro, and good builds and tactics to kill places such as fissure with <5 people should be disallowed, and you consider this 'human nature' of exploiting? What the hell are you on?

The OP is complaining that people find ways to optimize their skill set, and labels it exploiting? I got news for you, some people enjoy it just for the fun of playing a smaller group (like playing Intentionally-Underpowered-Builds in diabloII), and others enjoy the 'exploit' of 55 hp farming or whatnot.

So basically you want everyone better than you in PvE to be nerfed? Blech, this thread is traumatizing.

In closing, I play 3man FoW runs, 2 man smite runs, pug 8 man runs of either, and I enjoy all forms of this. Why is what I consider fun less important than you wanting to be a reactionary?

/Nods

I'm very sorry to all of you that I have spent time learning how the skills interact with each other and am now capable of doing things that you could easily do if you tried to become better players rather than bitch about someone else is better than you

If I should choose to play with others I will do so and if I choose to play alone I can do that as well. Not really sure how that effects any of you and how you play the game but just because someone has spent more time then you learning how to be good in a game that was designed about the "skill" of the player and not time spent leveling and getting uber weapons

Kook~NBK~ · Feb 11, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

There's going to be things about any game of this nature that people won't like.

I see nothing wrong with farming. Want that FoW armor? You've got 2 choices - farm for the materials / gold you need to get it, or sit around in Droks, ToA, or somewhere else begging (ugh)! Besides, if you've got materials that you can sell to people for a lower price than the traders charge for them, you're providing a service that helps someone else each and every time you make a sale!

As for running people through the story-line game, I hate it. A level 20 "helping" just anyone through the Fort Ranik mission is not helping them at all. It's "doing it for them." (I can solo Ft. Ranik mission and bonus, killing everything by hand in 20 minutes!) Even someone who's been through the game with a couple of other characters still needs to grind out those missions to sharpen their skill in thier new profession. If you REALLY want to help people with missions, go to THK and help with that! IMHO, there needs to be an avalance in Lornar's pass to close that off.

That's not to say that I think ALL running should be done away with. Being ran to non-storyline places, like ToA, Port Sledge, etc. is something I have no problem with. Running people to the desert towns is also OK by me, because fighting you're way to each of those places is just grind, grind grind. I'm not talking about being ran through the desert missions, mind you, just being ran to the mission areas.

Linsys · Feb 11, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurow

When I started this game, I was entranced. I loved the ideas the game was built on, the constant exposure to different builds and different methods of play was wonderful, it allowed me to stay open minded, and to expand my knowledge. I continued through the game with my first character, doing almost everything, there was always something new to strive for. Even after beating the game and becoming level twenty, I worked towards building great PvP builds and the like. I really liked this game.
Looking back on those days are now the same as a man in an unhappy marriage thinking back to the love-filled days of his youth. Now when I play, I find people looking for the newest way to exploit the game, the newest way to farm x, the best build for soloing y. This isn’t what you’re supposed to do. Areanet tries to stop people from doing this. It’s the moment that you start playing the game only to gain gold that it loses its innocence. Id bet every one of you can remember the first time you got to a new area with your first character, and you couldn’t wait to get all the new skills and fight all the cool new enemies. Now what do you think when you get to maguuma jungle with your 3rd or 4th character? It’s only a hassle to go through the game. And why are you making this character? I would bet that at least five times out of ten these characters are created so that someone can use them to farm gold better.
Doing the same run over and over again isn’t fun, in my opinion at least. Killing the same enemies, trying for the same loot, and when you get it, you go and sell it. What is gained? Money. Anything else? Well experience, but otherwise nothing. I don’t want to do these things. I want to play the game like I played it before. I want innocence. I want there to be no 55 monks. I want the level 20-28 enemies to be able to kill any groups with less than 4 people. I want people to not exploit the game. I want people to play it for what it is. But what I want will never happen. There will always be holes in the game; there will always be differences in the characters. There will always be opportunities for players to exploit the game. The people won’t change, its human nature to act like this. So what can I do? I don’t know. I just don’t know. I want the old game back, I want my innocence back.

Ok, I guess I miss the problem... do these things... don't farm... don't kill the same monsters over and over again, but DON'T tell others what to do.. what isn't fun for you might be fun for someone else..

How is it an "exploit" because level 28 enemys can't kill a 4 man team?

They didn;t exploit the game, they OMG just leared how to use their skills, you might want to do the same.. learn how to use your skills you might get into one of these 4 man teams.

I hate how all you people who don't want to "farm" try and tell everyone else how to play the game, if you like doing all the missions make a new character and do it... start a guild of people like you.... do something don't just complain on GW Guru.. this is pointless..

L I G H T · Feb 11, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linsys

Ok, I guess I miss the problem... do these things... don't farm... don't kill the same monsters over and over again, but DON'T tell others what to do.. what isn't fun for you might be fun for someone else..

How is it an "exploit" because level 28 enemys can't kill a 4 man team?

They didn;t exploit the game, they OMG just leared how to use their skills, you might want to do the same.. learn how to use your skills you might get into one of these 4 man teams.

I hate how all you people who don't want to "farm" try and tell everyone else how to play the game, if you like doing all the missions make a new character and do it... start a guild of people like you.... do something don't just complain on GW Guru.. this is pointless..

Well said ^ ^, you have some good point's but there are some hole's in your logic, Like most people we "Farm" but do not "Exploit" like he is trying to state I want that innocence back, but the truth is that innocence is temporary, like the first time you see that fissure armor, you think I'm going to do anything to get that armor! I'm not saying all players do this but a majority of them do this.

And to accuse him of ding wrong and flaming at him is also wrong, I can see where he is coming from with this. The fact is after you beat the game the innocence leaves and never comes back =(